I am a founder and director of a paranormal group and I could not agree with you more! The cost of events is ridiculous and it infuriates me to see how commercialized this field has become.

I just finished filming a documentary with many other amazing investigators from around the country and all of the proceeds from the doc are going into a scholarship fund. It is our hope that late next year we can host an event for the community in the manner these things should be for, to learn and network. The event will be solely funded by the scholarship and the only thing that we will ask of participates is that they donate a minimum of 5.00 to the scholarship fund….this is how it should be, each of us helping each other learn, not helping line the pockets of some.

Another thing that blows me away is the fact that para celbs, what have they contributed to the field? I mean really, a TV show, um the last time I checked many of these shows are hindering the field, not helping it so why do so many think of these TV show “stars” as God and Goddesses? I get so heated over this!

Just my two cents! Thank you for writing this!

Report this comment

Thank you for responding, Jenny! I truly appreciate your feedback. And, I want to congratulate you on your documentary. The scholarship sounds like a fantastic idea, so kudos to everyone who was/is involved with that project. Also, I am in full agreement with you as far as what some ‘reality’ ghost hunting shows have done to the paranormal community. I feel that more harm has been done than good. Quite frankly, with some of the ridiculous antics of a few, many professional, well-rounded, competent, honest investigators will end up not being taken the least bit seriously—and that is a shame. It seems that just about everybody wants to jump on board the paranormal gravy train these days, and I am sick to death of seeing the endless greed, jealousy and competition that now permeates this entire field.

Report this comment

I totally agree! I have also noticed that since being just a paranormal investigator with such a saturation in the field is not enough any more, now you have demon chasers who claim demonic presence around every corner…pleeeaaassee! I have been in this field long before the TV shows and I plan to be around long after and I have only witnessed one confirmed case of demonic presence and one possible case…it is rare and I get so upset with all the nonsense these attention seekers cause.

I hope they realize that if you go looking hard enough for something, one day you will find it!

Thank you for the Kudos, it was such a great project to be involved in. The team that was put together was from different paranormal teams across the country and we all came together and worked with unity, we carried no egos into the team or investigation and I am so proud of that…the field as a whole should really take notice to the fact that you can work together for a common cause and not do it with drama and hate.

Report this comment

LOL! Don’t even get me started on the whole “demons are everywhere” mind set!!!! It never ceases to amaze me how many people instantly freak out and think that there are demons hiding in every closet of their home, every time their wall calendar falls from its perch!!!! This whole obsession with demons has got to stop. As you said, it does happen, but those instances are few and far between. Authentic demonic possesion cases are in fact very rare from what I understand. So, I am totally with you on this as well!

Report this comment

They are extremely rare! I think it is the new trend to be a demon chaser or at best conjure up one within every case you investigate. I have not seen any evidence of these so called demons they claim to be dealing with, they say it is because it is dangerous to post that type of evidence. I say, they cannot post it because they have none period.

There are many negative things we deal with being investigator’s and for the most part that is all they are, negative, angry entities not a demon.

I will say this with certainty…if you ever run across a demon you sure as heck will not go looking for another one as many of these chaser’s claim to do.

I wonder what the next trend will be in the field?

Report this comment

Enigma

I would like to take a few minutes to address your blog/article on Investing in the Paranormal.

I am Dave Schrader, host of Darkness Radio and Darkness Events. I would like to address a few things about the events that always seem to get…..TWISTED….by people judging them.

I give you permission to reprint this email on your site and in response to your posting.

I am not quite sure where it came from that Paranormal Events are a rip-off? Or that making money off the paranormal is a crime. I will submit, charging homeowners that are desperate or in need and seek investigators for help is a crime but attending a well run event with talent isn’t. Here are some things to consider.

Many of you detractors first off act like we are ripping off mindless lemmings that have no idea what they are doing or getting themselves into, in fact a LARGE portion of our attendees are well educated people that are interested in pursuing a hobby or subject they are interested in. It is no different than attending Rock and Roll Fantasy Camp, Baseball, Football or Basketball Fantasy Camp, lectures on writing, art or any other interest.

Lets address the price. I have to laugh when people do the math. Dave you just did an event with 200 people and charged $200 a ticket…you made $40,000! You must be rich. Well, I have to pay the following, Jason & Grant, Chris Fleming, Patrick Burns and a host of other speakers, I pay their airfare and hotel and a few meals, speaker fees, rental cars and transportation to and from airports and hotels, AV rental, Lecture Hall rental, Insurance, Investigation location, just to name a few expenditures.

Then people gripe, “Why do you pay the speakers? That’s a rip-off!”
Consider this, most of the speakers have families. They work all week and some are away from their family for half the year filming tv shows, etc. Shouldn’t they be compensated for giving up personal time with the family and friends? I don’t know a speaker out there, in any field that doesn’t deserve to be compensated for their time. Be it motivation, sports, paranormal, etc. They are giving of their time and are VERY generous with the fans spending a good portion of the event mingling, hanging and exploring with the fans that attend.

Then there is the rationale that, “The $200 doesn’t even cover the cost of travel or hotel! What a gyp!”
When your favorite band comes to town or tours, or favorite sports team is out and about, do you get room, travel, parking, free t-shirts and beer and food? NO! It is part of the choice YOU make as a well educated consumer. We all post CLEARLY ticket price doesn’t include travel, meals or lodging.

When you pay the price to a concert it costs an average of $75 to $100 a ticket, same with most sporting events for decent seats. That is just for 1 ticket and it is for an event that lasts approx. 2-3 hours long. Then factor in a babysitter, $30 for the night, parking $15, dinner before $20, a few beers at the event $20 and if you want a t-shirt they start at about $30 and go to $100. Right there for a 3-4 hour event you may have an outlay of $200 per person without even blinking. Then I have to ask, after the concert, are you invited to hang with your favorite band, or go on the field and bond with your favorite sports stars? Do they ask you to play some catch or let you play their instruments?

The answer of course is NO. When attending our events you get not 3-4 hours of content, you get a meet and greet with the people YOU are interested in meeting that can last 3-4 hours alone, you get close to 6 hours of speaking content per day for a total of around 12 more hours and then a 4-5 hour ghost hunt with your favorite paranormal investigator. That totals around 20 hours of entertainment and content. It covers access to your favorite people to pick their brains, talk about your favorite subjects and make great new friends with like minded people.

So far I am lost as to where the rip off is?

I am with you on the fact people need to be smart in this economy, if they are unable to pay the rent or buy food then they should not blow money on things they cannot afford. It is however a free country and people are allowed to spend their money how they see fit. We aren’t holding guns to people’s heads, threatening their kids or kicking their kittens to get them to attend. They read the offer and either choose to accept or not accept to attend under the guidelines of the event.

A lot of hard work is put into putting together events and running them efficiently. I cant speak for other event holders but our events run smoothly and I never make false claims or promises. I do not guarantee that people will see ghosts or have paranormal experiences. I bring people together that have a passion, I bring them to reportedly haunted locations with people and speakers THEY are interested in seeing and spending time with and give them a venue to learn and be entertained.

There are some programs that are not run well, that have had issues but it is not fair to lump all events in one pile. Darkness Events is going on 3 years of well run, popular events. The success and return rate and word of mouth is evidence of this alone. I think as a consumer it is always a good idea to research the event, find out how long they have been doing it and so on. I know you are mostly upset about the events surrounding TAPSCon and rightfully so. TAPSCon is not the watermark to which others should be measured. I have over 3000 satisfied customers to date and can count on one hand the amount of complaints I have gotten. Of those I always try to make things right.

Please take time to consider the points I have made before making broad stoke judgements of all events.
I cannot speak for any other event, I can only speak to mine and a handful I have attended as a guest. There are a lot of great events bringing a lot of fantastic people together to share interests. In my opinion that is great. So many of us that were embarrassed in the past of our interest in this unique hobby have now found others to relate to and enjoy meeting.

I do enjoy your site and think you make some valid points on areas of the paranormal and TV shows however sometimes I think you and others judge things too harshly and on very little actual one on one experiences.
I encourage you to attend one of our events and judge for yourself if there is quality entertainment, education and fun to be had for the price of admission.

Also remember, many of the places we go, we negotiate the lowest room rates we can for our guests and there are other hotels in the surrounding area they can get for cheaper, again lets not remove the onus from the consumer, they too have to make wise decisions and research.

Thanks for your time.

Warmest regards-

Dave Schrader

Report this comment

I forgot to mention in my last post that at our events we also help give back. We have raised a couple hundred thousand dollars by running fundraising auction at our events that have benefited Shriner’s Children’s Hopsitals, Haven House battered women’s shelter, restoration funds for many of the locations like the Eastern State Penitentiary and so on. We work tirelessly to aid many organizations and the fact should b stated that many of our paid speakers end up spending their speaking fees on buying items at the auction so a lions share of their earnings from an event go to less fortunate and charity.

Thanks

Dave Schrader
http://www.DarknessRadio.com

Report this comment

Hi Dave!

I have attended one of your hosted events, it was VERY well ran and organized. May I ask you a question before I comment further? What is the normal rate for speaker fees? Are thet standard or set by the speaker or the one facilitating the event?

Thanks!

Report this comment

Dave,

Excellent comment and it is great to see an educated reply in regards to the paranormal money cow. LOL Seriously, kudos to you for sharing this with scifake.

I agree, your expenses are abundant and you have graciously demonstrated this in your reply; however! Paying $200 to rub elbows with a pseudo-celebrity is outrages and to top it off – ghost hunting.

No disrespect to you; however ghost hunting is laughable and this is only my opinion. I have good friends in the PN field and I mean no disrespect. But, when I picture a ghost hunt I see people in camouflaged outfits, ghost’s hats on (similar to deer antler hats), KII meters drawn and ready to say “did you hear that?”

It’s also my opinion, these hotels and restaurants invent evidence to attract the emotionally anemic focused on meeting a ghost. The word gets out (an old wise tale) the maid saw (always out of the corner of her eye) a shadow like figure in a room. She negates the fact it may have been a passing car, guests or heck, her own shadow. But, she tells the staff and the staff plays on her story (and weak emotions) and by the time it gets to the front desk Unsolved Mystery is banging at the door wanting an interview.

Most of the stories are hype and an some can be solved explained (an over active imagination).

Look, I’d spend $200 hundred to to travel to Disney world because I know it does exist and I’d have great time. However, I’d NEVER $200 to hunt ghost and NEVER to hear a boring lecture about how to hunt something that may not (more than likely) not exist.

The lectures are laughable. Kristyn Gartland Ghost 101, nauseous and overrated. She should spending $100 to see me!!! Yuk!

Do ghost have tattoos? LOL.

Again Dave, thank you for your time and please do write again.

Report this comment

Dave,

You sir are FAR above Mr. Fair!!! Kudos to you for helping others.

Report this comment

Admin

Something to consider, you think it is too pricey to do and WOULD NEVER DO IT. Just like I think paintball wars and laser tag were fine when I was 15, I however know people in their 40s still into it and spending thousands of dollars a year to do it. Although its not my cup of tea I dont slam it or think that people that run paintball fields or Laser Tag buildings are ripping anyone off.

As a fan of comic books and Sci-fi I have spent good cash to meet Stan Lee and Bob Kane, Members of Star Trek (stop rollling your eyes, I have outed myself as a major geek here) and have spent countless hours in rooms listening to them drone on about what inspired them or why they do what they do or waiting in lines for autograph.

I know, that says more about me than anything however the world is filled with people that do these things. What makes one more villified over others? My GOD what pure torture it is to spend 3 hours and $60 to go golf….I would rather have my eyelids removed and be forced to watch Mama Mia in a week long marathon.

People should feel free to do the goofy things they do without feeling like running a successful business or attending an event makes you a fool. You dont have to “GET” why people do what they do, just accept it as part of the lexicon and stop stressing over it.

I say go after real travesties like people that listen to a broken radio and charge mourning parents $250 to speak to their loved ones a telephone to the dead. Go after people that arrange events and then dont follow through on what they promise. Those are the real villians in my book and give the rest of us a bad name.

Well, my soap box is getting well worn today, perhaps I need to step off it and check my virtual countdown calendar to the opening of the new Star Trek movie….until next time….Live Long and Prosper.

JENNY-

I dont discuss people’s pay. Most are on a sliding scaled depending on how large the event and how far or close it is to their homes. Thats about all I can say, most however are very reasonable and deserve what they earn since they give of their time so graciously.

Thanks for attending the events.

Dave Schrader
http://www.DarknessRadio.com

Report this comment

Paintball, now wait a minute? I love paintball – at least I know when I get hit …it’s real! LOL.

Travesties, yes, I agree about the travesties in the world of “some” psychics and many do rip off people who want to reach out to dead loved ones. It’s insane and some actually pay $250 for a reading. My God man, I’ll give you a reading if you pay me $250 and I promise it will be real.

What is your refund policy? Forget that I didn’t show up, what happens if the headliner cancels and you’re promoting this headliner for months. Do I have a right to receive a refund of my monies? What is your refund policy for a postponed event? I have spoken to many professional event promoters and all disagree with Brent’s refund policy.

I appreciate your honesty and the time you have spent at this site.

Report this comment

Hey Dave!

Thank you for responding to my article. I will concede that you have also made some valid points of your own. I fully realize that you are not holding a gun to people’s heads and ordering them to attend your events and that everyone has their own minds!!!! LOL! I also fully realize that YOU are NOTHING like Brent Fair.

Quite honestly, my article was directed more towards paranormal events that are cancelled at the last minute (leaving ticket holders high and dry); events that are not well organized or well thought out; events that have pseudo-celebrities who show up and then refuse to ghost hunt with furious ticket holders; pseudo-celebrities who end up too intoxicated to ghost hunt (leaving ticket holders highly ticked off); and other outrageous fiasco’s that I know for a fact have occurred at some of these other events.

When people pay their hard earned cash to attend an event and then that event either does not happen (and their tickets are never refunded) or the event itself is nothing like it was advertised as being (meaning you do not get what you paid for), then I’m sorry, it is in fact, one big rip-off. The people who attend these events are paying to not only attend the event itself, but they are also paying hotel expenses, car rental fees, and lots of other incidentals.

That’s not even counting all of the T-shirts, sweatshirts, polo-shirts, and other ghost hunting memorabilia that is sold at these events that many people splurge on. It all adds up. And when you host let’s say seven or eight events a year and you charge two to three hundred dollars per person (per event), and you average let’s say five hundred to a thousand people per event, and then you throw in all of the T-shirts, DVD’s, books, etc.—that’s a lot of money. There is a huge potential to make a very good living off of these paranormal events, or these events would not be taking place, period. And while there is no crime in hosting these events and making money, it is a crime to refuse people refunds (not meaning you of course!) and use these events to defraud others.

Report this comment

As far as the refund policy, which I make ABUNDANTLY clear. In order to order your tickets from me I have info on the site that explains the events, there is also the line that states, SPEAKER LINE-UP SUBJECT TO CHANGE! so that it is clear that cancellations do come up, yet to date I have not had one happen. (Knock wood). Then it says over or under each button to order tickets NO REFUND! Then when they click the link it takes them to another disclaimer page that again reiterates our NO REFUND policy.

Here is where I do offer refunds, if the event were to be cancelled, a FULL and speedy refund would be sent.
Here is why I dont offer refunds otherwise. I still have to book the event, pay the hall or caterer for each person we are expecting to show up, I have to pay the speakers wether 1 person or 200 show up, I dont work on a sliding scale and never have. I have to book air, hotel, and travel for the celebs and myself and pay for insurance. Then here is what happens, 1 week before the event people decide, “Hmmmm….I am not really into this any more, my friends dont want to go, I wont know anyone” and they start attempting to cancel and then I refund all the money lose half the people and still have to pay all the bills as though 200 people are going to be there. That isnt fair to the co-ordinator of events either.

Now, with that said, I do offer something not many others do. I keep a waiting list when we are sold out and I try to help people that cannot attend to resell the tickets to others on the list. That too can be a HUGE pain in the ass because this is what I find 99 times out of 100, I call the people on the waiting list and they want to go but dont want to pay, didnt read the whole page and didnt know how much the total was, wonder why the people that cant go dont just GIVE up the tickets so they can go instead or ask to be put on the list and then never intended to go. I spend close to 4-5, 8 hour days calling and emailing waiting list people to try and help move tickets, some I even help right up to the minute of the event.

I understand it is frustrating for the consumer however if you buy tickets to see your favorite band or sports team and then decide you dont want to go, they dont refund your cash, they dont even try to help you resell your ticket. When you make a well informed decision that clearly states how the event will work and the chances, albeit slim that one of the speakers may have to cancel, then the rest falls squarely on the shoulders of the buyer.

I have had to stand firm even when there are excuses like, deaths, illness, etc. I try to help move the tickets but cannot refund. If I make one adjustment then people talk and I have 100 sob stories of why THEY deserve a refund. It isnt always easy, but its not personal, its business. I would love to help everyone that changes their mind however who is going to listen to my sob story when I cant pay for the event or pay my bills.

So, I think we will agree, if you go to http://www.DarknessEvents.com, read about an event that tells you clearly what is and is not part of the event and clearly states your refund options and then you have to click to a second page that again states it clearly and gives you ONE MORE CHANCE to stop from placing your order, then recieve a confirmation email within days of ordering that again states the policies and you do not contact me immediately then it is on the consumer and up to them to make a well informed decision. I also post, IF YOU HAVE ANY OTHER FURTHER QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS EVENT EMAIL ME AT Dave@DarknessRadio.com so that I can answer ANY OTHER questions or issues PRIOR to making a purchase.

Lets not totally make it about how bad some oranizers are, there is the fact that there are just some goofy people out there that spend money willy nilly and dont bother to read the information made available to them. Hell they dont even read the simple facts, they will go to my page, see the event and info and email me questions like, “When is the event? Whats the cost? Who is speaking? What is the refund policy? Where is the location?” and the best part is, all of that info is in the top 1/4 of each page…LOL. They couldnt commit to reading a page for 2 minutes.

To answer what if the headliner cant come? If the headliner were to bail, I would do my very best to replace the speaker with someone else that would be a suitable fit. Otherwise I would make sure everyone had the best of time and look into refunding some of the money since I would no longer have a large speaker fee to cover.

Well, I am off to enjoy the Easter weekend with my family, God Bless and abundant health to all who read this.

Dave

PS – For what it is worth, EVERY member of TAPS has been overly accomodating at our events to make themselves available to the fans and to be approachable, they are good people and do respect their fans. At least that is what my experiences have been at my events.

Report this comment

Dave,

There are many individuals that consider themselves paranormal investigators. I believe in networking to the fullest, doing this only helps the community as a whole because in the bigger picture it may help others get along. There are many events that have numerous speakers that could help new investigators learn, heck even seasoned ones can learn a few pointers sometimes but in many cases the cost of attending the event is so costly that the average household cannot afford to attend any events.

I agree that speakers need to be compensated and the reason for my asking the question was to determine who sets what they will receive and how it is calculated, thank you for answering the question for me.

I just completed a project , the filming of a documentary with numerous members of the field from all over the country. The proceeds will be given back to the paranormal community in the form of scholarships, So if someone wants to attend a conference and cannot afford it, we may award them the money to attend. I just wish there was some way to cut some of the cost so more people could attend some of the great events that take place every year.

Report this comment

In the end it’s not about the money, it’s about the passion for the parnaormal. So although it burns a huge hole in our pocket, it keeps us happy and content. I agree that the field has become quite the media subject, but at the same time I feel that’s a good thing.
For years the paranormal was swept under the rug and you were automatically “weird” if you even believed! Take away some of the drama and misleading information, these people are all out for the same thing.

It stinks the media has caused the paranormal to be toyed with, but at least its almost a household topic now. The more open minded people are, the better chance we have at uncovering more evidence to prove or disprove.

Now that the paranormal is all over tv everyone thinks their house is haunted and alot of area groups are “picking and choosing” which case they take without even speaking to the owners face to face. Not every place is haunted of course, but we shouldn’t assume they are lying just because we get numerous calls.

Conferences and paranormal events are magnificent! It’s a great way for people involved and interested in the field to get together for numerous events and reasons. Cost may rise, but if it’s something your truely passionate about, money is no obligation.

Thanks.
Cassiopia DeMars
Premiere Paranormal Research, Inc
http://www.pprkc.org

Report this comment

Jenny, when and where can someone see this documentary? I am very interested in seeing it. Also, the existence of the paranormal or unexplained apparitions actually go, back thousands of years. ALL societies have a history of ghost stories and other unexplained phenomena. Even several religions have ghost or spirits incorporated directly into their beliefs. Even though the study of the paranormal is not an exact scinece yet and the instruments being used are “borrowed” from other fields of science, one should not write off the possibilty of the existance of ghost or the possibility of being able to identify or measure in some scientific way their presence.
Even though we know that there are many chalatans and fakes out there, and people who get excited over a KII spike which may or may not be actual “contact”, the possibility that someday (even today) that we may actually be able to prove that ghost exist can not be written off. I do agree that the paranormal field of study has become way to commercial with the popularity of certain tv shows, and as some have claimed has hurt the paranormal field. But on the other hand if it were not for these tv shows, I would have never known how many people were interested in the same things that I was. Furthermore, these tv shows has lead me to several websites, such as this one, that I would never have known that they even existed.
If you really wanted to change the way people spend money on these events, you could start holding your own events at community centers and charge no admission, then educate people about all of the charlatans and fakes and debunk KII’s and other “scientific” instruments and show how they can be manipulated to show what ever evidence that you want it to show. Then maybe some of these amatuer ghost hunters might think twice before spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on stuff they may never even use.

Report this comment

Dave,

Yes, you too have a great holiday and at your convenience read my reply.

I have read your comment twice and I’m still having a hard time with part (highlight “part”) of your refund policy. You state “SPEAKER LINE-UP SUBJECT TO CHANGE!”. I have a HUGE problem with this and it’s very simple. If I purchase tickets to see a three band line up and the HEADLINER (not opening act) decides to jump ship at the last minute, I want my money back! I am there to see the headliner and not the opening act. In a more simpler explanation, Jerry Seinfeld verses a local comedian. Seinfeld cancels for what ever reason, now, we have a problem and I would like a refund or a “choice” of a credit. The headliner has been billed on advertisements etc for months and I’m excited about seeing the headliner. My money is spent to see the headliner and not the local comedian.

If I (the ticket holder cancels) I am SOL. The event promoter should NOT be liable for refunds if the ticket holder decides to cancel. I’m with you on this policy!!! However, keep in mind, some crooked event promoters schedule an event many months in advance hoping the ticket holder will cancel, therefore forgoing his/her refund.

In regards to Mr. Fair, his differences with the hotel are just that “his differences” and ticket holders should be refunded ASAP if requested. I have spoken to many event promoters and all agree – something is not right with Mr. Fair and his policy. At one time (I have the screen shots) Mr. Fair was offering NO refunds regardless of whom canceled. A day prior to the event Fair can cancel ( not saying he would) and decide NOT to move forward with the event.

NOw, Fair says he made over $130, 000 and he strongly denied this information. Read here http://www.gobignetwork.com/profiles/Brent-Fair.aspx.

For the record, some of Mr. Fair’s policy I do NOT have a problem with; however, I have a problem with an event promoter who lies to his ticket holders.

I think Mr. Fair’s attempt to allegedly defraud the ticket holders may prompt legislatures to pass legislation further protecting ticket holders. If a headliner (e.g., Jason Hawes or Grant Wilson) cancel an event ticket holders should have the opportunity to: 1) Receive a credit or 2) Receive a refund.

In addition, you (the event promoter) should be required to put money in escrow to cover your ass! Simply put!

In closing, I do like the fact that you do offer to sell the ticket for ticket holders. In addition, I give you credit for coming here to announce your refund policy and your ability to communicate with a civil tongue. It’s a blessing. Always keep in mind, I (or my contributors) will NOT make this personal. It’s all business!

Report this comment

___________________________________________________________________
metallifan101 said: “If you really wanted to change the way people spend money on these events, you could start holding your own events at community centers and charge no admission, then educate people about all of the charlatans and fakes and debunk KII’s and other “scientific” instruments and show how they can be manipulated to show what ever evidence that you want it to show. Then maybe some of these amatuer ghost hunters might think twice before spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on stuff they may never even use”.
___________________________________________________________________

Excellent idea! I couldn’t possibly agree more! I know that this is not going to be the most popular statement, especially for those who are turning a nice profit off of these “events”, but my contention all along has ALWAYS been: Why make these “events” about making a profit? These “events” are supposed to be about sharing information and ideas, networking, and educating people in regards to the paranormal, are they not? Why charge anything at all if the purpose of these “events” is supposed to be all about the “fans”? Or all about “educating”? Or all about “networking”?

I don’t care who wants to defend the fact that they make money from these “events”, by claiming that there is no crime in it, the bottom line is that people really should NOT have to pay two to three hundred dollars just to get in the door, regardless of the pseudo-celebrities who are in attendance! These pseudo-celebrities put their pants on one leg at a time just like everybody else and when it comes right down to it, they are no better than the rest of us, therefore, people shouldn’t have to be charged just to stand next to them for a picture or just to listen to them give a lecture about the paranormal.

It is more than obvious that these “events” are all about making money and anyone who claims otherwise is either lying or living in complete denial. Let’s face it, when you consider how many “events” are put on each year and how much is charged just to attend these numerous yearly “events”, and how much merchandise is also sold at each of these “events”, it is a fantastic money making scheme, period. These “events” are not put together out of the kindness of their hearts or out of generosity—and that’s all that there is to it. So let’s dispense with all of the excuses and other b.s. that I have heard to justify charging such outrageous amounts just to attend these “events”.

Folks, you can put a pig in a dress, but it’s still a pig! People can keep claiming all they want to that these “events” are put together ‘for the sake of the fans’ or for whatever other reason that sounds all flowery and sweet, but it’s about the all mighty dollar and making as much as you possibly can off of these “events” and it’s high time this fact is no longer overlooked. Of course, there are those out there who do not want people to start using their heads by putting together and planning their own trips to reputedly haunted locations (instead of attending these “events”). And the reason for this is quite simple: If people start going on their own and no longer attend these types of “events”, these coordinators stand to lose A LOT of money.

I stand by my earlier suggestion: Do not attend these “events” where you have to pay through the nose. Coordinate and plan your own visits to these reportedly haunted locations (minus all of the pseudo-celebrities). Why keep lining the pockets of those who put these “events” on???? Put together your own visit and save your money! Take your family and make a family vacation out of it or whatever else you can throw together, but the best thing that you can do, is make your visits to paranormal “hot spots” something that you have planned totally on your own. If you are going to spend the money, then spend it on a sure thing: YOURSELVES!

Report this comment

I agree with Dave people can waste their money anyway they choose. The greater question here is why anyone would pay to meet Jason and Grant. Their pathetic attempt at hoaxing their audience on the Halloween episode was the final straw. These two are nothing more than greedy, lying hoaxsters who will take every opportunity to make money off of their fans until the show ends and they are sent back home where they can only take advantage of the few people who would still have them.

Report this comment

Steelguy:

Exactly right! Of course people can spend/waste their money any way that they choose to—that is a given and something that I even said in my article. But keep in mind that DarknessRadioDave works hand-in-hand with Jason & Grant in putting a lot of these “events” together and considers them his friends, so your comment about Jason & Grant (while accurate!) might not be well received by him.

Report this comment

___________________________________________________________________
DarknessRadioDave said: “I dont discuss people’s pay. Most are on a sliding scaled depending on how large the event and how far or close it is to their homes. Thats about all I can say, most however are very reasonable and deserve what they earn since they give of their time so graciously”.
___________________________________________________________________

No, I can’t imagine that you would want to discuss this, because if people actually knew the amount that these people are being paid to appear at these “events”, they would choke! I know for a fact that these people are paid VERY well. They are more than compensated for their time and travel to these events, which by the way, they attend of their own free will—no-one is putting a gun to their heads and making them! After all, there is money to be made for making an appearance. It’s considered “work”. And the paycheck is a nice one! It’s not so much about being gracious as it is paying the bills and making some nice bank—and that’s the bottom line. Put whatever spin that you want to on this, it is what it is, and it is entirely insulting to expect people to believe otherwise.

Report this comment

I would love to hear any comment Dave may have about the collar pull in the Halloween episode.

Report this comment

Steelguy,

I think that subject has been beaten way beyond life support and it has a DNR attached to the chest.

Report this comment

LOL…No where did I say I do these events FOR THE FANS. I never implied it, and it is a business, a business I pride myself in. If I run an event why shouldnt I be paid for my time and effort?

You keep beating the drum of pseudo-celebrities, just because you dont deem them famous enough to want to hang with or pay to see what makes you right?

There are good people that go to Horror Movie Conventions and will spend $20 on a autograph from the guy that played Jason in Friday the 13th Part 3…we never see the actor, only a burlap sack or hockey mask but people pay for the autograph non the less, same with “I was the 3rd victim in the gas station in Halloween 4″ making $20 on an autograph. Just because they arent people “I” would pay to see doesnt make them any less popular with others.

What it appears to come down to is you just like to whine about the events and no matter how they are portrayed it is a rip off and a scam. Thats a childish judgement in my opinion. It leads me to ask, where is the anger REALLY coming from? Because someone is successful at something YOU DONT BELIEVE IN? Thats ridiculous.

The beauty of America is this, you have free choice and will on how to spend your money and time, I am all about people making educated decisions and I am also all about people making an HONEST living. I dont see you attacking these motivational seminars by people like Tony Robbins, Donald Trump, etc. You can pay through the ass, close to a $1000 for a weekend with these guys to hear them talk and tell you how successful they are. If I employ your thought process to it, “Why should they charge me to teach me what they know and share thier time with me? Shouldnt they just GIVE of the time freely so that we can all learn success and prosperity, especially in these uncertain times?”
People would laugh in my face for asking. You pay because it is something that interests you. Its like asking, why do people mountain bike? Why do people build sandcastles? Why do people scuba dive? Why do birds sing? Why do fools fall in love? They do it because it is what they enjoy doing, who are any of you to sit in judgement of the people that attend or run events?

There are only a HANDFUL of events that collapse and MANY that succeed very well. Are we, the successful events that bring an exciting event to people that are interested in them to be judged by the same ruler as the failures? Thats pretty simple minded…I think they refer to that as profiling and stereotyping in other instances.

None of you have to like my policies, none of you have to attend my events or any others, it is up to the individual to make up thier mind to do so. You are right, if money is tight, go to a location on your own and PAY MUCH LESS. Or pay a premium and hear talks, investigate with people YOU respect and have a good time.

So far none of you have made a fight for what exactly is the issue with anyone making a profit doing an event. It happens every day, concerts, sports events, motivational seminars, OH YEAH…AND COLLEGE where you pay a hefty fee to attend and LEARN from others about subjects you have an interest in. Granted after an event with me you arent able to practice medicine or build a bridge but then again you arent in hock to me for 10 years after the class in student loans.

This is a business….do you ridicule people that pay during October to go to HAUNTED HOUSES and HAYRIDES? No, why not? Because it is fun and no harm….Hmmmm, but should people pay upwards of $30 to go into a house that isnt REALLY Haunted and pay substandard actors to jump out and try to scare us? I SAY LETS START THE RESISTANCE HERE! DOWN TO HAUNTED ATTRACTIONS AND THE THOUSANDS THEY EMPLOY! LOL.

This conversation seems like a debate on abortion, every one has taked a predetermined side and neither seem to understand the others viewpoint.

I run a very successful Paranormal Event Series, I make no apologies for it. I am a divorced father of 6 kids, I worked in an industry that was all about profit, thats what America is built on, the right to succeed. I provide a popular entertainment form and have always followed through on my events, and I spend countless hours preparing for them and making them run smoothly. I am usually the first one up in the morning at my events attending to my guests needs and speakers and I am usually the last to go to bed after making sure everyone else is satisfied. I work 18-20 hours a day at my events and am away from my family when I do them. Why would I do it and sacrifice so much if not to make a living and take care of my family?

Stop attacking people for making a living at something they love and are good at. You all seem like intelligent people here, does sitting in judgement and hiding behind your computer monitor where it is fine to throw allegations of scams and ripoffs what you are really about? God, I hope not, what a dismal existence.

These events are about the following, meeting new friends with similar interests, finding a community that doesnt look down on you for your interests, keeping the shows in front of the core audience and making a bond that will keep people tuning in each week, sharing the knowledge of the paranormal that they have and of course…to make a few dollars doing it. There is no shame in any of that, I am not making it out to be noble, but it isnt as simple as TURNING A BUCK.

Do you question stock brokers that play the market and make money when they see a trend? Isnt that the same according to you? Making money on something that is hot? Hmmmm, come to think of it, thats how life is….seeing opportunity in things and making the most of them. I think its a shame that you think so poorly of people that attend that they must be incapable of making wise decisions with thier money and time.

You are right people shouldnt HAVE TO pay to attend the events….No one says they HAVE TO attend. They can make their own arrangements. You dont HAVE TO do anything, however if you dont pay, you dont play. That applies to everything in life.

CassiopaD made the best point :
“CassiopiaD
April 11, 2009 at 11:38
In the end it’s not about the money, it’s about the passion for the parnaormal. So although it burns a huge hole in our pocket, it keeps us happy and content. I agree that the field has become quite the media subject, but at the same time I feel that’s a good thing.
For years the paranormal was swept under the rug and you were automatically “weird” if you even believed!”

Its not ALL about the money, but at least I am honest and have never had any bones about saying, YES, I MAKE MONEY DOING EVENTS AND RUNNING THEM. Just like any good concert or sports promoter does.

There are other CHEAPER alternatives out there too, Nightwatchers do events for a lot less than most of the other resources, and most times off no celebrity at all, not even a pseudo celebrity. Todd Sheets and I are friends and when people tell me they wish they could go in a group but cant afford my events I point them to Nightwatchers and when Todd gets called about wishing there were more “celebs” on an event he refers them to me.

Believe it or not, most of the good people that run events dont make much. And what they do make they use to pay for paranormal equipment for thier groups since they dont charge to investigate. They pay for gas to get to homes far away that are calling and begging for help.

Now to address ADMIN’s concern on the refund policy. I can say this with the purest of heart and intentions. I have never had a headliner cancel to this date, (knock wood) and hope it will never happen. You liken my events to that of a major concert with one main headliner and a crap opening band…LOL, I get that, however I look at them more like a Music Fest, where we bring many groups together and although some are bigger than others the tickets postings clearly state, CARD SUBJECT TO CHANGE. And that covers them, it may not seem fair to you but it is by all letter of the law a full on legal disclaimer. THATS WHY I SAY, BE AWARE OF THE EVENTS YOU ATTEND. IF YOU ARE NERVOUS OR WORRY THAT THE CELEBS WONT REALLY BE THERE, DONT BUY A TICKET.
If I bill people on my list and someone cant come I always swap out for another speaker and alert my paid guests and although I dont give a refund I do my best to help them resell thier tickets. In the event that the MAIN draw fell through I would do my best to honor my ticket holders with other options. I am not an unreasonable man and hope that I never actually have to face that dilemma.

The celebs book the events months in advance, and clear schedules and rearrange shooting schedules to attend. The other thing to consider is this, go to the MAIN website for the speaker you wish to see and see if they promote the event themselves on the site. If they dont most likley you are being fleeced. TAPS would promote DarknessEvents on thier actual website on the front page so you could have real confidence that they would be there.

With that said, I will say…there are a few groups out there that DO take advantage of celeb names and sell tickets when they in fact dont have the celeb booked. There is a group in MN that asked me to participate in an event this summer, I spent countless hours on the phone with them helping them to make it a good event and they advertised me and others on the bill to be speakers yet never gave our contracts and when they did…they changed them dramatically and I pulled out because they wouldnt do the right thing and stick to thier original agreement. They hadnt even confirmed some of the guests on their lists to attend yet they are using them to sell tickets. To me, thats the crime of this business and gives some of us a black eye in the fall out.

There is going to be good and bad events just like all businesses. I dont think people should avoid us all because of a mishap like TAPSCON. Just do your research and understand what you purchase before you make a commitment. Its really that simple.

I feel I have been pretty clear and succinct in my discussion and hold none of you ill will. I think going on and on will be beating a dead horse. We can agree to disagree, I think events offer a fun atmosphere for people to do something they love, they may seem pricey to some and to others they would pay more to do the same thing. I say, encourage buyers to be smart and research but not to avoid altogether.

The one thing I can never advertise from my events is the life long friendships that people have made attending them. We even had proposals and hosted a wedding among guests that met at one event and got married a year later at another of our events. It is about making a dollar for my family and its about loving the job I do but I also love the tons of email I get following an event from people saying how it changed their lives and they dont feel like rejects or alone anymore and they got answers they always wanted. If I can make money and have fun with a great group of people while I do it, I can only wish that others find the chance to do something they are skilled at and enjoy thier job and thier lives as much.

Thanks for your consideration in this and I think this will be my last post on this subject as there is more to life than constantly defending something that isnt wrong or bad to begin with.

Peace to you all and may you all find the answers you seek and the paths you desire.

Warmest regards-

Dave Schrader

Report this comment

Dave,

I think you have made some excellent points and we do appreciate the time you spend writing your lengthy explanations. I will tell you, Brent Fair would NEVER give the same intelligent explanations. LOL.

I guess juxtaposing your event with Woodstock is in order? Many bands are scheduled to play; however, one or two may NOT show up. BUT, your event is specific in nature and it’s not a band playing. I’m there (at your event) to rub elbows with two/three people and maybe make some friends along the way. Again, it’s specific in nature and your market is a rifle market.

This is where I disagree!

If you’re advertising Jason Hawes for months you must understand people are buying tickets with the expectation that Mr. Hawes will be there with bells on around his waist. Making friends is secondary and not the main objective. So, I respectfully and strongly disagree with your opinion in that regards.

By the way, Brent Fair has pushed an event and advertised certain headliners; however, according to the agent he NEVER had a contract in place. Fair just assumed the talent would be available for the date.

Anyways, great to have you on board and you’re welcome here anytime sir.

RT

Report this comment

As far as all of the EXTREMELY lengthy explanations from DarknessRadioDave go…I think one of the famous lines from Shakespeare’s play Hamlet (Act 3 Scene 2) sums it up best: “The lady doth protest too much me thinks!” (But in this case, replace the words “The lady” with the name Darkness Dave!). And I will leave it at that. I have more than made my point(s) here and I am simply NOT going to argue over semantics. We are all entitled to have as well as express our personal opinions on this matter, and my personal opinion of these paranormal rip-off “events” has not changed in the least. As a matter of fact, I am now more resolute than ever that these “events” are nothing more than money making ventures.

Report this comment

I wasn’t attempting to start a new thread about the collar pull , just used it to make a point about Jason and Grant and their credibility ” or lack of” in reference to these conventions.

Report this comment

Dave does seem to be a bit too sensitive about some of these comments, I do not think anyone called him out personally. The shelf life of these paranormal events will probably be a short one, and you have to make your money while you can. Even if I believe these conventions with the same speakers at about every event are a complete waste of time, Dave has found a way to make money off of the paranormal and does not want to be critcized about it.

Report this comment

I’m sure he’s a very hard worker; however, I see these events cannibalizing themselves soon. There’s just so much you can take of ghost! LOL

Report this comment

Agreed. This is not the first time (nor the first web site) that Dave has shown up on, where he has went on the defensive and acted overly sensitive after someone expressed an opinion about these paranormal rip-off “events” that he did not care for.

Whether he likes it or not, people have the right to disagree with him and have their own views on these “events”, regardless of how hard he works or how much he might give towards charity or any other positive spin that he wants to try to put on these “events”.

But it is more than obvious that he has found a great way to make money off of the paranormal and not only does he not want to be criticized for it, he does not want anyone to mess up his good thing! However, like all good things, these “events” will eventually come to an end (just like the show Ghosthunters).

Report this comment

If I may bring the topic back onto another area touched upon in the article, that being people spending money on “ghost hunting” equipment. I have been in the paranormal investigation field for over a year now, and I have invested a decent amount of my own money into equipment. I do not have any children to feed, live in a house that is paid off, my financial responsibilities are minimal. For me personally, it’s no different than if I were to spend my money on some other hobby. I agree that it would be irresponsible if I was falling behind on my bills or not taking care of my family while buying all this equipment.

And yes, we know that there is no “proof” that ghosts exist. And I also know that I will never collect any “proof” that a diehard skeptic would accept. But that’s not the point. Most of us have had personal experiences in our past, prior to becoming involved in the paranormal field, so it’s natural for us to want to explore this field. People have been reporting paranormal activity for thousands of years, all around the world – including some very highly respected and credible people. It seems foolish to simply dismiss these claims out of hand, to proclaim that we know everything about how the universe operates.

Report this comment

Excellent comment and welcome to the site Timber. In my opinion, you DON’T need all the expensive equipment to hunt ghost. The equipment is all hype Timber!!! To hunt ghost, have a camera and a Sony digital recorder.

Now, go have some fun and stop buying all the expensive equipment.

Report this comment

Well, a lot of the equipment that I’ve purchased does have dual purposes, not just for paranormal use. For instance, I picked up a camcorder, SLR camera, and a laptop – all of which can be used for lots of other things. I also picked up a motion-sensing game camera, like they use on Monster Quest. I have used that to monitor my property, see what kinds of critters I have coming into my yard and digging up a bunch of holes. As far as EMF detectors, they really are good at determining whether a house is poorly wired. It is true, that high EMF fields can cause people to have feelings of paranoia and report paranormal activity. After all, we’re not in this simply to find ghosts, but to help homeowners understand what they’re dealing with, put them at ease, etc.

But I do agree, that a lot of the equipment on the market really isn’t all that necessary, and I would especially avoid buying from a site that bills itself as a “paranormal equipment” site. 9 times out of 10 you can find the exact same equipment for less on a non-paranormal site, Ebay, Amazon, craigslist, etc.

Report this comment

Thanks for your comment, Timber. I have been investigating the paranormal for a little over twelve years now. Way before it became chic or en vogue. And I have NEVER invested a bunch of my hard earned money into buying a bunch of fancy, expensive ghost hunting equipment and have walked away with a TREMENDOUS amount of evidence. I know plenty of others who do also not waste their money on expensive, over-priced equipment and they too, have collected tons of valuable evidence.

I think that it is also important to note that practically ALL of the fancy, expensive ghost hunting equipment that is currently being used (by ghost hunting groups like TAPS for example) has NEVER been scientifically proven to actually detect the presence of ghost’s. The EMF detectors, the FLIR, the thermometers are all utilized in other legitimate vocations and have been designed for other purposes. These items were never designed for ghost hunting, period.

And in my opinion, these pieces of equipment have no business being used while ghost hunting. But, to each his or her own! If you want to waste your money on these unproven methods, then by all means, go right ahead. In my article, I am merely trying to make people think a bit before wasting their money and to use some good old fashioned common sense.

But, as they say, there is a sucker born every minute! And many people are being suckered into buying useless things like K-II meters, FLIR’s and all sorts of other ridiculous gadgets. The most basic equipment is often times the best and the most efficient to use—there is simply no need to keep investing tons of money into equipment that has NOT been scientifically proven to detect ghost’s, and that’s the bottom line.

Report this comment

I understand where you’re coming from. But when you say that something wasn’t “designed for ghost hunting” – show me a piece of equipment that IS actually designed for ghost hunting. You mentioned that you use a plain old camera, yet even that isn’t designed for ghost hunting. There are plenty of non-paranormal examples of people using equipment for purposes other than for which it was designed.

I know that we’re going to disagree on this, but I think we both agree on the fact that people need to be responsible in their purchases. It doesn’t matter if it’s paranormal equipment, the latest videogame system, electronic gadgets, etc – people should never put anything ahead of taking care of their families.

Report this comment

That’s exactly my point, Timber! NOTHING has ever really been originally designed for huntng ghost’s! Ultimately, I think that people should use their heads and make reasonable, prudent decisions when it comes to purchasing equipment and that there is really no need to buy a bunch of expensive, hi-tech gadgets. But, we are in total agreement that people should never put anything ahead of taking care of their families!

Report this comment

I think that people are trying to use some of the equipment in an attempt to capture tangible evidence to have something to show. Video cameras and Sony digital voice recorders are good, but people are trying to experiment with other equipment in the hopes that they may have a breakthrough of some sort. I do believe that too much faith is being put into devices like the KII meter and emf meters. The major issue being that too many other things can set them off giving false positives. EMF meters are good for homes when trying to disclose high emf readings as a possible debunking of “being watched” or other paranoia. Other documentary type shows that I have watched have even went further into explaining that high emf fields, natural such as from fault lines running underneath houses or man made such as power lines, can even cause audio and visual hallucinations in the brain making someone believe that they are seeing or hearing things that are not there.

On the other hand, centuries ago people dabbled in alchemy trying to create cures for the sick and even turn lead into gold, and others looked to the stars and proclaimed that the Earth circled the sun. These people were called heretics and quacks and shunned by society. Some were even put to death for their heresies. Now these same type of people are called chemist and astronomers and have created a cure for polio and have sent men to the moon.

The morale of the story is that things we do now that might seem crazy to other people, may some day with enough research be a reality. We might not be able to measure the energy or whatever makes up a spirit or ghost yet, but someday we might. Does that mean we should stop investigating ghost now and wait for technology to catch up, or use what we have in an attempt to get a better understanding of what we are dealing with, even if it turns out to be nothing at all.

By the way, there is the Mel-meter that has a built in emf meter with ambient temp gauge with back lighting with an optional led light made just for “paranormal investigators”. I’m not saying that some one should rush out and buy one for $130.00, because I sure won’t, but there is one piece of equipment “made” for ghost hunting.

Report this comment

I think that the whole ghost hunting thing is a big ruse to get ppls money. Yeah ppl see strange stuff. We all have seen strange stuff. yet when its quite and all is good. Not much is captured. All we ever see is groups or individuals and thier supposed proof. It won’t hold water in a rain storm. Don’t waste your money on such faked stuff.
Did anyone see the latest preview of Ghost Hunters? Seems that Jason is going to get touched again and pushed back. HOW phoney. ppl that believe this show is for real are idiots.

Report this comment

Excellent article Enigma!

Report this comment

Thanks, spzodiac!

Report this comment