“# Some assurance to skeptics that best practices in investigation techniques will be followed”
You’ll never get past this requirement and will end up in quick sand. Since no one can prove the existence of anything paranormal, it’s impossible to use the best techniques or practices.

“# Decrease rumors, etc., regarding investigators and provide a safer environment for them”
Huh? What rumors? What etc.?
How is the environment not safe now?

“Should those with any particular beliefs or opinions be ineligible for certification?”
No. Someone will start a website just because this question was even considered.
If you would like to see a preview I can start a thread on SyFy tonight.

You could read information on Dreamsingers website and his posts on SyFy. He has answered many of these types of questions.

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Hi VictoriaHelene,

For some reason the reply button is not available for your comment. Additionally, the first version of my comment got really messed up.

Anyway…

You said:
“# Some assurance to skeptics that best practices in investigation techniques will be followed”
You’ll never get past this requirement and will end up in quick sand. Since no one can prove the existence of anything paranormal, it’s impossible to use the best techniques or practices.“

So I say:
Fundamentally I agree with you. Even from a linguistic standpoint the word “paranormal” means it can’t be proven, else it would be just “normal”. However, a non-disingenuous skeptic (which I’d like to believe I am) should be able to say, “I am willing to consider evidence within the following reasonable parameters…”.

You said:
# Decrease rumors, etc., regarding investigators and provide a safer environment for them”
Huh? What rumors? What etc.?
How is the environment not safe now?

So I say:
There was a recent situation involving someone with a criminal background who was then a target for malicious phone calls and threats. A system such as this would help prevent such vigilantism from occurring.

You said:
“Should those with any particular beliefs or opinions be ineligible for certification?”
No. Someone will start a website just because this question was even considered.<<

And I say:
Heh! I’d be curious to see what you discover. We’ll take this under advisement.

Thanks!
Mike

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@VictoriaHelene:

When one says I’m an “Investigator” some will automatically assume you’re certified or have some sort of special training; however, this does not apply for PN investigators and how can the the field be taken seriously without special training (NOT ghost training for those idiots who think you need a certification to be a ghost hunter) or assurance that each investigator is bonded or without criminal history?

Special training would consist of (not limited too) report writing, use of cameras, securing records etc. I know this sounds like asininity but a client is at ease when the investigator is properly trained.

More focus should be on the bonding and the background checks.

If you want this field to be taken seriously then I would suggest to make it a serious field.

Good article.

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Wouldn’t TAPS requiring a background check do the same thing? You are never going to agree who is the right kind of investigator. Can someone who uses an Ovilus be certified? Can psychics get certified? IMO the use of either makes the group lose credibility. Also, what would you certify the group in? Not touching kids? That’s a background check. Mypara.net has a great forum thread on this subject of certification, I think you all should check it out. I say have TAPS begin background checks through the local PD. They are easy to get and pay for. Then concerned adults can ask if the group members all have had their docs done by local police and even request that people with any criminal past not be admitted to their home. It is the job of the person seeking the group to ultimately have enough brains to wonder who the dude in the cowboy hat carrying a weird meter is before giving them full access to their home and sleeping children.

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I agree John and ALL members should have access to the files of others …including the founder. If a child is hurt or a house burglarized then it’s too late.

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Do we need to mention the irony of John mentioning My-Para as the source of a good thread on ANYTHING?…one that is primarily a TAPS Family/fan forum?…and is administered by the team that the sex offender was a member of according to recent articles here?….

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@GodOfWar:

GREAT POINT GodOfWar!

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Background checks are a great idea, but once you start going beyond that and into various certification levels, you’re opening up a whole can of worms.

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That statement is untrue GodofWar. MyPara is administered by several different teams and not all of them are TAPS Family. Your assumption is that which is untrue and unnecessary. Therefore you are assessing that six different teams who administrate MyPara house sexual offenders which is completely untrue. It also is not relevant to the conversation and subject matter of this thread.

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So I say:
“There was a recent situation involving someone with a criminal background who was then a target for malicious phone calls and threats. A system such as this would help prevent such vigilantism from occurring.”

I know about the man and his criminal record is a fact. The cops will hopefully locate the people responsible for the calls and threats.Background checks should be required and all you need in S.C. is a computer and $25.00.

What rumors?

How is the environment not safe now?

“evidence within the following reasonable parameters…”.”
Define reasonable.

Ron:
Who is going to do the training?
How many hours are required?
What is the cost?
Where will the instruction take place?

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I’ll write more tomorrow. I need sleep.

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Without getting into a big debate over the certification issue, I don’t see too many paranormal groups / investigators supporting anything in which SciFake is involved, including this certification program. And I’m not knocking SciFake for that; but they have butted heads with those in the paranormal community too many times for it to turn around and support them now.

And as for My-Para Network, it is the biggest joke in the paranormal field today. I had a profile page on there and I was banned simply because I deleted a comment that someone left on MY OWN profile page on there! It was my freakin’ page!! I should have had the right to post and or delete whatever I wanted within reason. But I was banned for it. So come on, do you honestly think someone is going to take that site seriously?

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Hi,

Timbr71 and a few others have questioned whether having additional skill-based certifications are worth having. Perhaps we should “table” those ideas and merely focus on the background check certification for now.

Though, I do want to respond to John Dockum’s point. He asked whether psychics or people who use an Ovilus could be certified. I don’t know what the latter is, but there is a very important point here. In my opinion, yes, these people could be certified because this cert simply states you would follow certain defined procedures. How one chooses to follow those procedures is up to the individual.

Think of it this way: Houses must meet a number of requirements to be up to code, but the variety in housing types is remarkable. Materials, design, construction techniques, etc., are widely varied. And, just because a house meets code doesn’t mean it’s particularly livable.

Joe Clark points out that SciFake has butted heads with folks in the paranormal community. Fair enough, but that is a non-issue in my opinion. This organization would be a separate entity with directorship provided by individuals from varied perspectives. The goal is to find what people can agree on, and I firmly believe that is possible.

I’ll try to check out the MyPara stuff.

I believe we should be finding ways to make this work rather than reasons why it will not.

- Mike

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Certification? Why don’t they first go to school first? Right now all I see are people who wake up one morning and can see ghosts. I laugh when I see people who fix toilets all of a sudden can see ghosts. It’s not ghost people see but dollar signs.
Also another big issue is theft of personal information. I have to pay $30 a month to keep people from try to get my personal and business information. I have a great service which tells me who was trying, for example if someone in RI tried, it tells who they are and where they work. Sorry but who are you and why should we trust you to keep our information safe. While I do agree, the only problem is I would not trust anyone.

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I’m all for allowing homeowners to be informed of who’s coming into their homes, but shouldn’t that be up to the homeowners and local authorities to administer?

Also, this accreditation business will never work. Who’s going to decide, these guys? http://www.boardofparanormal.com/
The Ghost Hunters will have their PhDs in no time.

And what’s this business about a ‘sales and marketing advantage’? I thought paranormal groups were non-profit.

Finally, who left you in charge? VR

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Ron,
Thank you for you for making my train rides very enjoyable.

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@VictoriaHelene:

I think all intentions and questions are excellent. This is a heated topic; however, many here present true professionalism.

Good job!

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Victor it’s not about being in charge …this is about common sense and safety. I do NOT have the answers for I am only making recommendations and with the input maybe all of us can implement a positive plan of attack. First (IMO) the criminal background checks should be conducted asap and maybe there should be an non bias organization (a panel) of volunteers overseeing the PN. Also, possible an organization similar to the BBB where clients can search for complaints etc.

These are just ideas and if you have a better solution by all means please advise.

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Thanks Jim for I am glad I can entertain you and the commuters.

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Question … shouldn’t that be up to the homeowners and local authorities to administer?

as a client of a paranormal team, we were under so much stress at the time thinking of background checks was furthest from our minds looking back would we have contacted local authorities?, I don’t think so.. admitting that you think you have a ghost in your house to the police- I just cant picture that happening based on what we experienced would think others would react the same- we tried to keep it secret from everyone, people might have thought we were nuts, might endanger our jobs etc etc

Now if I were a business, or museum and not a private home I could see where -it be a calmer situation and that one requesting an investigation might think to not only run background checks but check with authorities- but for the average Joe that is seeking out help I believe that they will not think of it or assume that a background check is a requirement already

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Howdy,

Jim effectively asked how the data can be secured to prevent abuse. Outside of the usual data security techniques I’m open to any additional thoughts. No unique information such as SSN should be available in any way to people. Perhaps the application should be a paper form that is mailed?

Victor asked why a “sales and marketing advantage” is needed/warranted for private not-for-profit groups. Regardless of whether these groups charge for their services (which is outside the purview of this proposal), they have a vested interest in gaining clients. If they want to find data of interest, then they would want to go to more places. A certification could provide an advantage.

Victor added “who put [us] in charge?” No one. This would be a new organization with only partial input from SciFake. I’m sorry this point needs further clarification.

Also, it is not about being in charge. Membership and accreditation would be purely voluntary.

Paraskep questioned the value of this cert by asking whether the goals are really the purview of homeowners and local authorities. Firstly, I don’t see the local authorities issuing paranormal investigator licenses. If anything, I see them investigating the investigators via bunco. Secondly, homeowners probably don’t know better. If they feel they have a problem with a “ghost” and are willing to have complete strangers come in to their house with night vision cameras, IR devices, and other bleepy-bloopy tools then questioning whether these people are not predators is not on the top of the homeowner’s mind.

- Mike

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First I am not doing any personal attacks. The reason I am a little aggressive on this is because I have had people try to get details on my background. I have had a very detailed background check done by the Federal Government because we do business with them. My concern is that people in certain positions may get a hold of that and use it to their advantage. I know because someone in RI has somehow gotten a hold of SS# and now I have to hire a lawyer to fix it. In short who will watch the watchers?

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Agreed.

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@mphtower:
Yes, Mike, I’m sorry the point about ‘who left you in charge?’ needed clarification too. In fact, the issue needs further clarification: i.e., who exactly is going to make up this ‘c-level’ board of paranormal administration? Yourself? Ron? Jason Hawes?

Good luck. VR

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@admin: They are amazed that these shows are still on the air and that people believe all of this

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@anonymous:

Au contraire Anonymous, it is relevant in the sense that one of the main administrators of that site you mentioned is one who’s team had a sex offender as a member…I wont go into the fact that there was recently an announcement posted on the main page of that site that: if anyone makes any statement that could be construed as even remotely anti TAPS; that statement would be promptly removed and the offending member would be subsequently banned….if only they cared as much about protecting kids from predators as they did about stopping heretics from uttering blasphemous anti TAPS sentiments then perhaps that sex offender would not have been allowed to join RCPS in the first place and stay a member until he resigned on his own accord … And while we are at it; please explain to us why “certified ghost hunters” are worthy of acerbic criticism by My-para members in that (semi literate) thread, yet the touted and highly coveted designation of TAPS Family member is that which is often prominently displayed by those most critical of ghost buster certification?…

enthrall us with your acumen ….

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@anonymous:
You know… if I was going to write a Pro-RCPS/My-Para (sex offender team) statement I would list my name as anonymous to! LOL!

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@Joe Clark:

The fact that those currently presiding in the paranormal community will not back Sci Fake for butting heads in the past is something I would be proud of personally, but that’s me… Nobody of any consequence takes My Para seriously but they still may in some way facilitate incompetent, unqualified and potentially dangerous PIs gaining access to the homes of more gullible and vulnerable clients and this is where there is the need for concern ….

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@Aanica:

His real name is probably Billybob or Skeeter LOL …

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@anonymous:

I said A TEAM that is an administrator there, not that ALL teams that have a member as and administrator at My Para harbor sex offenders… Jeez you guys are even incompetent failures when it comes to fact spinning lol

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interesting this site will find you a paranormal group in your area for $100 when all one has to do is a net search, who in the hell is authorized to certify anyone or group. For $50 I will find you a paranormal group in your area if anyone is looking and for another $50 I will certify you as a paranormal investigator.

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sorry in my previous post I didn’t mean scifake’s site but this one.
http://www.boardofparanormal.com/

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That is the problem. Scifake, Taps and no other group can say they will be in charge of getting this done. You would have to have a group, but then who will be in the group. Or an outside group to oversee the certification, one problem! May cost a pretty penny to do.
Also the real world has to believe in paranormal. Because of all the BS on the TV, Internet and of course the people being ripped off. No one will take you seriously, no matter how many certificates you have.

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Ahoy hoy,

I’m going to give this at-sign thing a try.

@Victor: For the C-level execs, it simply comes down to who would be the right people to maintain operations. I don’t believe that would be me, Ron, or Jason Hawes, though I think we all have experience running small businesses. In my dreamland of fantasy cupcakes and cookies, the CEO (or equivalent) would be someone like Paul Allen who has a vested interest in this type of research, CEO experience, and access to VC funding.

I do, however, see folks like Ron and Jason H. on the board of directors influencing the nature of the business. Doesn’t matter if it’s them or not, but people who have a degree of respect in the community.

@RTI_John asks “Who is Sci-Fake to be an authority on any type of certification in regards to a phenomenon that cannot yet be proven to exist?” As stated previously, this would be a separate entity from SciFake. Secondly, this is absolutely not about certifying one’s ability to find paranormal phenomena. This is an attempt to prevent the public from being conned by unscrupulous or possibly dangerous people. Whether ghosts exist or not has absolutely no bearing on the fact that homeowners give these investigators unfettered access to their homes. While the vast majority of investigators are not threats, the opportunity for harm is definitely there. If we can help prevent that, great.

- Mike

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While I agree with you on Ron 100%. But on you and Jason, it would be a good idea to let the people decide who is to be on the board. Let’s face it; everyone has to be able to trust the people on the board. Also what type power will this board have? The board would have no say in telling people what to do. All sounds good but let’s face it, The Paranormal must be recognized as real first before you can try and start something like this.

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@mphtower:
Oh, Mike, what ever shall we do with you.

a) You want to help set up a board to defeat fakery and hooliganism within the paranormal field.

b) You’re willing to give Jason Hawes a chair in this organization (quote: “on the board of directors influencing the nature of the business”).

c) Jason Hawes is the leader of a group that anyone with common sense can see misleads and dupes (millions of) people on tv and then profits from it.

Is it just me?

Also, as someone has already and astutely pointed out, Ron is (unfortunately) in a poor position to hold office. No self-serving paranormal group or individual (and, let’s be honest, there will be bad apples in the voting pool) is going to vote for someone (like Ron) who they know will most likely never be in favor of their obtaining certification or accreditation.

The ship is sinking, Mike, into that vast ocean called reality before it even shoves off. No one is crazy enough to set foot on this Titanic; not even Quint would climb aboard this Orca. VR

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Jim: I agree and disagree that the organization would have no say in telling investigators what to do. Seeking certification through the organization would be purely voluntary, but that would also mean they would have to abide by whatever standards are set by the organization. The same goes for IEEE, ASE, etc.

So, if the standard is that your certification is valid as long as you do not have a conviction for any of a defined set of crimes, then groovy.

As far as belief in the paranormal goes, the clientele of paranormal investigators believe in the paranormal and that’s all that matters. A hardline skeptic is not going to invite investigators over to check out the weird noise in the basement, so it’s a non-issue.

Victor: You have an understandable point. However, Jason Hawes is respected by those who believe in this stuff. And, I personally have no reason to doubt his own sincerity. Moreover, by having people of differing opinions working together it should theoretically be possible to prevent tomfoolery.

And let’s just say for the sake of argument that Jason H. is a mastermind of fakery and has personally orchestrated everything that has ever happened on that show. That still does not mean that the various individuals in communities who go out and look for this stuff are insincere.

The ghost hunting folks I’ve personally spoken to have all been quite sincere in their interest and beliefs. When they go to a place hoping to capture evidence they’re disappointed when they get nothing. (They also overreact to perfectly explainable stuff, but hey.)

It is the interaction between these people and their clients that we’re talking about.

- Mike

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I’m sure Hitler came across as sincere too…

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Sorry but this is what I thought would happen. Welcome to the real world. The GH, GHI and now GHA have pretty much made anyone part of the paranormal research look like fools. Sorry, the old saying what goes around comes around. But Hitler, wow that maybe going a bit too far. Those teams while they think in their own world they are the best, well look around this site and others. Who are these people who like and respect them? Are you part of a TAPS team? And don’t forget Tapscon! Sorry it will take a while before any of those teams receive respect .

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@mphtower:

“it should theoretically be possible to prevent tomfoolery.”

Communism theoretically is a good idea too.

@Admin: Here’s my advice: drop the certification idea entirely (it’s absurd and simply will not work) and leave the sex-offender-policing effort up to the homeowners, the local authorities, and the investigating paranormal group (i.e., let the issue be dealt with at a local, not an executive, level). VR

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I agree, it is up to the home owner to do the checks. We are not law enforcement

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@Jim:

Sorry I meant Charles Manson

The Manson Family-Certified Paranormal Investigators as a nice ring to it ?

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PS. I’m sure everyone here can agree that we want to avoid another Steckler situation. If you’re looking for something to do at a central and global level, the answer (for us average concerned citizens) is to educate and inform. Knowledge is power (it’s also legal and productive). VR

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Victor and Jim: You both argue against having some sort of independent organization providing certification that is belief agnostic. You argue that it is up to the homeowners to do this research instead.

How?

Just a quick search online shows that a criminal background check costs $19. If a homeowner wants people to come and investigate, are you actually suggesting that the homeowner should cough up $19 for each member of the team that comes over? To have Zak, Nick, and Aaron swing by would cost $57.

A central organization moves this burden onto the investigator where it rightly belongs.

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Don’t get me wrong, there has to be easier way for your clients to research people. But again, you have to have people in charge who have respect in the paranormal community. The people you recommended, people don’t trust. Sorry until the TAPSCON and the all shows issues are resolved. Anyone from the shows should not be part of it. But this is America and you should let the people decide on who should be in charge. Again the say question comes up. Who is going to watch you?

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sorry should say same, fingers too big for the blackberry

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#1, Those in my Organization and its many various sub chapters are required to have Packets made for each member. These Packets include Police backgroung Checks but each state only covers that state. You have to get online and have Federal Checks done on members also because that person couldve moved from Cali and no one would no for sure if they had done anything out there unless you get that Fed Documentation. my Members also are required a psychological test which is why I personally believe a therapist or Psychologist is essential to all groups. As far as Paranormal being unprovable, thats untrue. There are many Organizations in the U.S. who has made that Million with actual Scientific Proof on the Paranormal. Its not mentioned mainstream because then there would be a mass pile up of thousands of pieces of info that arent real proof being pushed as proof. Paranormal just means not Scientifically Normal. My Organization also has a Different type of Certification Program. We had to divide the Organization into 2 departments to make it happen though. The Paranormal Research Department of the Night Society Paranormal Organization in Louisville, Ky Certify differently then any others. We not only train how to investigate, but also how to Scientifically collect real Data such as wave form patterns, emf fluctuations, magnetic polarities, ect… This is when we get different. We dont train Paranormal Investigators. We train Paranormal Technicians because Investigating only is defeating the Purpose of the Investigation itself thus we have No Investigators but Techs. A Tech is a Person who uses Scientific Equipment and Theories to determine Cause and effect of energy with matter. Well this is what we do, thus no one in this field is a mere investigator and unless there is a Scientist of some type in your groups then you arent truely doing Paranormal Research, its just a hobby with out the scientific background to help authenticate any findings or data. Now we also Certify in the Demonic Research Department. All members need to know basic psychology, Paranormal investigating, Scientific Principles of both Paranormal and Demonic to compare findings to, background Checks and also I suggest home drug test kits also to be assure your members arent using because that will ruin any credible evidence found. Many groups think its just sign me up and go and until now that was true but for a Scientific Organization like mine you cant just sign and go and be considered a true Scientific Organization by the State itself. Protocols have to be placed and this is from the Scientific Community itself: When Paranormal Groups decide to be real Scientists, they will start using Science Protocols which require the State and Fed background checks, drug testing, and psychological tests to prove they are truly eligible for the Scientific field. My Org is now being considered for Government Funding for true Scientific Research in the Paranormal and the only thing keeping from being a real Scientific Field Recognized by Schools, and Private research Organizations is the fact that most groups allow almost any Tom, Dick, and Harry into the group who couldve been the Zodiac Killer for all those group leaders really know and these Certification Programs should be a Standard as well as an Actual Certificate Stating exactly what they were tested and traind on for the Clients to see. That also reminds me, My Organization just began yet a new program which before the Walk-Through we Show the Certifications of Each who is going to be involved and get their feelings and thoughts on each as they read their capabilities and short comings which will be on the certificate as well as any disgretions they may have had but anything from Drug use to assualt in any way will disqualify any Group by being Governemnt Recognized and is about to be law that to become a Non-Profit of any type all the requirements my Organization uses for certification was passed as Law in Ky to have to be considered by the State for the Application of your Group to become an official Organization and I also Warn everyone that many Groups claim to be an Org but they are not and do not meet State requirements but still yet claim to be an org illegally with out challenge. All are now beginning to ask for the State forms to prove the Org is an Org and is something we have begun to show our clients during the initial Interview. These are the Standards in which the Scientific Community DEMAND us to have to be considered by them a Scientific Study and we hope this will push others to do what we have. A psychologist can get Wavers for both State and Federal Checks at no cost and also access medical and possible psychological tests and Dr.. they had seen or ducked lol.

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And to think some teams have 5 7 members. NO homeowner will be willing to “cough up” $120.

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I would think Jim your team members will be watching you and you’re watching the team members. I think a solution can be hammered out soon.

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I forgot to mention that all chapters and sub chapters of any Organization is Federally Required to have all Members of those groups also checked and certified the same as any in the actual Org because those groups once chaptered is recognized by that State and on a Fed level to be the same Organization that has chaptered it and is even a requirement stated by the State Non-Profit Paperwork which also states all Chapters/Sub Chapters are to be put on the Organizations Paperwork and also States it is Illegal not thus thus any Chapters or Sub Chapters are in fact Legally on a State and Federal Level, Your Organization itself thus T.A.P.S. was outraged on many Levels over this finding because as much as they will deny it, ALL T.A.P.S. FAmily Members are required to be in their Documented Organization Paperwork no matter what state they are in or Legally they could be fined for Tax Evasion because they control many other groups which are Not Tax Exempt because they wouldnt be recognized thus T.A.P.S. could not claim them as a Chapter or else legally get charged for hiding sections of their Org which they dont but was embarrassed but they shouldnt be because that happens with chapters and why direct control of Chapters is Vital to reflect your Organization.

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@mphtower:
Thanks, Mike.
What I suggested was that the onus be placed on the local level, between the homeowners, the group, and the local authorities. This provides a cooperative effort which empowers the homeowners. Do I think a homeowner should cough up $57? No, but I think they should have the right to do so if they want to. Really, I would say the responsibility (and the tab) should be on the local paranormal group, who is responsible for who is in their group and who works with local authorities and the homeowner (again, a local-level effort).

Creating an executive entity that empowers folks like Jason Hawes seems to me to have less the homeowners’ best interests in mind (again, it favors marketing and sales for PN groups) and is creating a monster. I’ve read Frankenstein, Mike, it’s not good.

By the way, did anyone listen to the Ghost Divas radio show last night? Some interesting perspectives from Donna LaCroix on TAPS. It’s worth checking out. VR

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Just to clarify (so there’s no more confusion): if a local group like Zak’s pays the $19 to research each new or existing member, it’s a one-time up-front cost (though they may choose to update it annually). If the homeowners want to run their own checks, then they can do so. Otherwise, the local group can now present data (to each homeowner) that their group members have been checked out.

Done deal. No need for CEOs and VPs of Paranormal. Like someone said (repeatedly): who’s going to watch the watchers? VR

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First the only thing my team looks for is the pay checks.
Again while all this certification sounds great, who would run it? How many of the team members have some type of REAL education in this field. (College) I have certification in many areas and not because I say I know how to do something. I went to college and then took the test. That can’t be done here. Instead of certification because it does bring up a lot questions. Just have the team members be check for any criminal back ground only. And yes a basic is from $10.00 to $50.00. Have each Crew have their own certificates to mount on a wall and copies to give to clients. No on national, because let’s face it. My personal business is no one’s business unless I did a crime. Sorry I would not trust some of you to take care of this. Also all of you would love to see the others out of business

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@RonaldDressler: I don’t agree on this. Each state has different laws. TAPS is supposed to be a nonprofit. I am part of a nonprofit and what you just stated does not apply. TAPS would have to register with each state were they have team members. (Just using TAPS as an example, no jabs intended) The person in charge would be on the paperwork given to the state that they are in. In short they would have to have officers to run the nonprofit. So Jason or Grant could be an officer in those nonprofits.

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Personally I dont care about putting anyone out of buisness but to become a recognized Scientific Field then the same requirements are do to us as it is to Scientists which means background Check, Counselors, Screenings, ect… The person can pay for all this instead of having members fees for a specific set amount of time set by the controllers of the group. Those groups with no membership fees can have the members do the same and it gets cheaper with if you have appropriate people in the group which all organizations or groups should have some kind of ties to a Lawyer, C.P.A, Psychologist/Therapist, and some type of spiritual counselor just in case. These are also required to become a State recognized Non-Profit Organization. Heck for Drug Screening just do the strips from Walmart, have the therapist psychologist friend do an evaluation on the member and that psychologist therapist can and would get the State Background Check and has access to a Federal Check on them as well.

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But all the positions you just spoke about, they have to go to college. Work as interns and then pass a test and yearly classes to renew their license. This is not even close and to compare it the people who went to school 6 years + is an insult to them. This field is as different as apples to oranges, not even close as becoming a lawyer, doctor or a CPA. I have respect for anyone who has taken the time to go to school to get a degree or Technical training. I was in school for 8 years and still going when I have to. Your are telling people that a certificate makes it all perfect well it does not. Until this field is recognized or you have a real college degree on the wall. You should not be dishing out this BS to people. I am all for criminal background checks, but your stating is wrong.

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another point is that most home owners who believe they have ghost want resolution, they are not going to ask are you certified did you clear a background check, most groups would abuse the sysytem even if there was a certification. And why in the hell would anyone even suggest that Jason Hawes should be on the board, all the fraud for fame and lies he has told he should be banned from the field not put in a postion where he would over see others.

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i though this site was about exposing ghost frauds ?
now its turned into a witch hunt for ghosthunting child molestors to take the heat off of tebo vs hawes.
i got news for you * hawes isnt your buddy guy and you’re not his guy buddy.
so let me get this straight this is now a vigilante site ?
lol thanks for the laffs.
love yah’ take care muah’

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You read the statement wrong. To be considered a Scientific Organization you have to meet the State Quota for it. That means you have to have at least a Lawyer or C.P.A. in the Group itself or one appointed by and is the Law. A Psychologist or a Therapist which most do Paranormal Investigating will join a Paranormal Group. These guys can evaluate your members for future problems and get the background checks free. To be in the Paranormal as a Scientist no degree is actually necessary for this simple reason, Even those with degrees are Nobodies with out a Psychological Test, Drug Screening, and Background checks because with out those they cant start using that degree now can they. Cant even start a Company with out that dependding on the State but 45 out of 50 states require what I said before and is also the ONLY WAY to be recognized in the Scientific Community as a Real Scientific Organization. They care little about Degrees in this field because heck I study Physics and have been toe to toe with students of even the Great Dr. Kato so yes that does in itself qualify me to do Scientific Work if the Organization feels they want me to that is. It still however requires all the screening and testing I mentioned before to be recognized at all by the Scientific Community and look at it their way, a Schitzo on meds gets into your group and you have No clue about their problem because they hide it, then they start tainting all the evidence thinking they constantly hear and see things. This would kill an Investigation of serious Research. Couldve found out by a simple backgroud and/or a psychological screening and this can be caused by mixed meds by an addict thus the drug screening. Their are reasons why the Science Community doesnt recognize most groups and its directly related to the membership and Data Collecting/Reviewing Process because 98% of all Paranormal Groups let anybody in plus reviewing Evidence isnt enough it all needs to be Scientifically tested in all ways possible which many in the field dont have time to do nor the proper equipment which is outrageously Expensive, but you can gain access to grants by abiding the Federal Scientific Regulations and Procedures for the equipment if you can gain Organizational Status through the State.

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Oh yeah sorry I forgot, Get a C.P.A. in the group first, then have them get the paperwork and submit it for the group as a donation. There you just gained Organizational Status as long as you fully abide by the States regulations and for free. Then Get a Psychologist or Therapist in the Group to do Psych Evaluations on Group Members and Clients for free. Then get the Lawyer and begin to gain access to grants. Both the Lawyer and the Psychologist have access to the State Database for State and Federal Background Checks and can do it for free. Saves everyone money right there and how we did it with No Funding and No Members Fees.

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Which State Jim and I will look that up as I was told by the State that at least a Lawyer or C.P.A. is a Federal Requirement and I just want to look it up since we are expanding to other states and having to do the paperwork for each state I would like to see the requirements for your state for a Scientific Non-Profit is for when we get out there. I am in Ky.

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Thats not an insult in case you take that wrong. That means for each state we need a C.P.A. or a Lawyer from what my State explained to us.

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@goatonguez:
LMAO@ your illiterate comment, so I take it your a sex offender sympathizer… or at least a “goat tongue-ez”? OMG! No wonder your offended at the rage we have for sex offenders!

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@goatonguez:

Well isn’t it surprising that an illiterate cretin is against incorporating vigilance against predators posing as paranormal investigators…I doubt if JH would appreciate you support on this one goober …

proof positive that electronic monitoring alone will not keep subhumans off of the internet…

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I’m going to leave your comment to demonstrate sympathy to a person who is not informed. Hawes and I are not friends; however, we try to communicate with a civil tongue! Unlike the salivating anti and pro taps fans. More anti at this point!

What’s the point of mudslinging? Seriously! I’d rather keep the site open for a civil debate in a manner that I hope offends no one! BUT, I will tell you and everyone …if you don’t like the site fucking leave and don’t come back. Just as I would say to a person who does not like America. Leave if you don’t like it here and never come back.

I hope I made myself clear!

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LMAO!

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They are right, this site for paranormal frauds. Based on what I am seeing you are wasting my time and everyone else’s. Also one of the posts was right. Somehow they would find a way to screw that up. Sorry I was dragged away from what this site is here for. Losers who try to rip off hard working people’s money.

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Admin, your right. No reason to get to personal on this site. I may disagree on the shows and what people to do in this field. But everyone deserves some respect. Treat everyone as a professional. No reason to lower yourself.

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I have no sympathy for any sex-offender..ghost hunter or not, why don’t you ask Ron Tebo if he does?

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Jim: You said, “Sorry, I was dragged away from what this site is here for: Losers who try to rip off hard working people’s money.”

That’s exactly the reason why we want to do this.

I am a bit dumbfounded that people aren’t recognizing this as an approach to reducing the frauds out there. There is a difference between the misguided and the malicious.

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I am torn with the certification issue. In my opinion, there would not be any possible way to choose a reliable “board” to certify investigators. Who would be on this board? Who would elect them?

Wouldn’t legislation that requires teams to register as nonprofit organizations solve this? When you register as a nonprofit organization the founders are required, by law to undergo background checks and credit checks before they are approved by the state officials.

If a paranormal team or individual investigator chooses to charge for their services (which I loathe) then they could apply for a small business license, which would require the same background and credit checks.

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Hi Pamela,

As far as who guides the board, that would be up to the members of the organization. Obviously, those who think this is non-beneficial would not be members, ergo, they would have no voting input.

Personally, I believe setting this up as a 501(c)(3) makes the most sense as there are a number of regulations that help keep the organization honest–though certainly don’t guarantee it. But a non-profit at least means that the direction of this entity is not necessarily motivated by profits.

However, I’m not certain where the notion came from that a small business license requires a credit or background check. You aren’t the only person to suggest this. That’s untrue. In fact, for those with criminal records, starting ones own business is the best approach for those who are otherwise unemployable.

- Mike

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Actually Background checks are required by State and Federal Law by any Business because of the Terrorist Act and I forget the name of the act but 3 yrs ago because of a school which hired a pedophile it is required by law now to do these checks and even drug screens if it is a Scientific Non-Profit with Government Funding such as Grants and is why many groups which are not a Non profit cant get these grants. Also if this field is where you rely on your income then possibly your group is one of the bad ones because a non profit doesnt get a paycheck. Books and things like that is different but anyone who relies on getting paid for this is bound to B.S. evidence and clients to assure their paycheck. Not saying thats everyone and not busting anyone out but there is a group in Louisville that the members pay to get in and become ripped off because this group leader #1 claims to be a Non Profit but yet it is illegal for any company to charge employees to work for them. #2 they charge clients under disguise of being forced to join their group in order to have an investigation of their home. #3 The group leader takes all evidence collected and only he, his case manager and the Lead see and evaluate the evidence and the leader has posted false and fraudulent claims of his experience and evidence which has 98% all been debunked and proven as fraudulent and faked. If your Organization has the funding then thats fine but when it becomes about money the Fraud comes out and ruins all who get greedy and is an ongoing trend unfortunately but there is a group growing strong and is almost a state wide organization. This means they are organizing all of the groups in the state and are now considered for true scientific funding by the government because it is a well organized organization that abides by State and Federal rules of Organization for Scientific Studies of the Paranormal which is leading the Government into finding a new way to have a power supply. heck it was the paranormal which lead to the thought of multi dimensions and quantum mechanics which lead to us being able to discuss this here on this Internet web page which would not exist because computer programs had to be quantified for these to be fast and so large of programs for us all to be on a computer now. Einstein even claimed to have come up with relativity while pondering the Paranormal. This field is a Science field and in no way will mere dabblers be able to continue because it is a field on the verge of massive recognition by our government and in the next couple of years it will be a real Science Department used by the Government for many Scientific studies and not just Ghosts.

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Has anyone ever considered this from the other direction?
Whose to say all homeowners are good, honest people? Who’s going to protect ghost hunters -a fair number of whom.. well, let’s face it, tend towards youth, gullibility and naivety given the hoaxes frequently perpetrated in this field (both gear-wise and experiential), when some cretin decides to pad his income or sue someone to pay for some household item he broke himself, by fraudulently calling in a local ghost hunting group on the pretext of a “haunting” and then laying blame at their feet?
If it hasn’t happened already, it will soon. It’s just a matter of time. I’ve seen some of the contracts drawn up by some ghosthunting groups, they all but sign their lives away to the home owners, legally!
The police report would look like this:
“I called in these ghost hunting people to find the cause of strange noises in my attic, and they broke my 5th dynasty ming vase while running around all over my house with all the lights off! I demand restitution!”
(and in reality, the guy dropped it last week while trying to clean it)
The way these contracts are written, the ghost group would be screwed. At the very least, they should incorporate for protection.

Groups can’t afford to do background checks on all their clients, they’re already doing everything else at their own expense.

I’m not saying checks on members are a bad idea, just.. let’s also work out what to do if the shoe is on the other foot.

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@RonTebo:

There are only two universities that offer any paranormal classes which are not majors as well only minor perquisites to Psychology itself. UCLA is one of them, only was mostly due to Kerry Gaynor and Dr. Barry Taff with their research including such famous cases like the “Entity” and the San Pedro haunting of Jackie Hernandez.

I have seen overnighter schools offering degrees in Paranormal which is obviously an oxymoron. I do know at one time there was some classes available at the University of Ohio as well. Maybe, no longer offered though.

The information on this subject only again places more of an issue for Paranormal investigations since these events tend to tarnish the credibility of any legit Paranormal group. But, this should be expected since there is no regulations placed on this field like other fields of research. Maybe, when Paranormal groups can put aside differences and form an organization to help better Paranormal investigations and provide some ethics. I would love to see that, then it may assist in gaining some credibility for researchers as well!

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@GodOfWar: My Para has many Fakes like Ugly@Rude who tries to use it as her personal Website. Also The Client earlier mentioned in another thing that was erased came and stated how U@R is a liar and said such things about me over a personal grudge with Aanica and God of War. That Person and My Para should be under Investigation by SciFake. My Client is a moderator there but shes about to leave over the lies. Its Illegal Slandar to DeFraud someone using fraudulant claims based on Personal Opinion with no facts and even went as far as lying about the mental state of the client thus I propose that entire site become boycot because they are going to ruin the name Paranormal.

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@Joe Clark: Honestly, most true science based Organizations do support and are trying to help change the Paranormal through the views and truth here on SciFake and those which refuse to change for the scientific forwarding of this field is the problem and most likely the frauds as they refuse to risk being exposed to who they really are. They do have things to hide but on a State and Federal Level all Organizations are to have Background Checks because it is a Company and by LAW have to oblige the Terrorist act of 2002. Those who dont wind up having to reestablish their Orgs because the Feds will take you off the Registry for it and Fine your Org. Those little groups dont help us in the Science field because those who refuse to be checked on are usually the frauds and in it for the money and many at my Para show this all the way. Thats why I quit that site many mnths ago when I saw the fraudulent things being passed for evidence, that site is a basic Joke and even allow the fraudulant groups to use the site as their actual website through the discussion group boxes and those are all frauds because what actual real group or Org doesnt have their own actual Website and avoid having one so Fraud and Theft of Copywrite Charges will trace to their IP directly as well as know where they are and live and exact email. Thus these have to be frauds or else they wouldnt be hiding like that would they. Food for thought and how ALL the Actual Organizations see these groups and are about to challenge all of these types of groups and once its seen that 98% of their supposed Evidence is faked which is easy for an Org because we all have the spectral analyzing equipment to see what digital fakery lies with in easily.

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@MARK CALE: The N.S.P.O. is striving to do just that starting in Ky and so far we are drawing in many little groups as subchapters and are in process of bringing in some large groups to organize as well. Going to be a Speaker for the Louisville Paranormal Investigations group here in Louisville on the 30th at Baxter Ave. Morgue on Mammoth Cave Park which my group has signed contracts to control. Working on Waverly now. Hope it happens but not holding my breath b ut my Co-Founder Brian Plahetka says hes been at the table with them and it supposedly looks good. Real Science is what is drawing these places to use us and real groups to have us speak. I will be speaking at a convention in the Spring in West Virginia at a soon to be announced Convention by the Paranormal Haven of the Upper Ohio Valley Group and friends of the N.S.P.O.

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Ron I suggest getting a hold of the still active Paranormal Police Group to help regulate things as you need to. They will help weed out fakes and you can have them report them all in a section on here. That will keep these frauds from coming here and causing trouble from fear they will expose themselves as others have on here like fools. What Idiots these people are to come on here and call others out just show the lack of knowledge and truth and show they have things to hide or they would be ruined. If only we could force real groups to all join an Org somewhere just to weed these people out entirely.

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@Orion: Groups are supposed to screen the Clients in an interview by asking questions and re asking key questions in the interview. Youll all find once you do this you can hear them change stories around and try to fit them together after they screw up showing they might be lying about it or at least how bad it really is. There are a lot of Home Owners out there Right now who lost their jobs and ready to say they have demons are evil ghosts for fame and publication to get their cuts. The honest people mostly wont let you publicize their cases and takes an arm and a leg just to get them to sign the disclaimers. This shows concern for their selves and families over the exposure of the Publication and publicized haunting and also shows they are truthful. Most Groups However dont really Interview the Clients really and try to just go into the Investigation right out. Orgs dont and have screenings of clients, interviews and in most demonic cases a psychological test of some type. This decreases the amount of claims to the Orgs because the Fakers dont want to be seen for what they are so they would rather use newer less experienced groups looking for a name to get funding so the frauds get them to do it and because they are newer and less experienced will not see through the bull until its too late and have to back their clients or be seen as frauds themselves so yes I do agree that some groups get pulled in by Client Frauds and is a danger in this field and thank you for pointing that out for it to be explained by at least somebody.

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@RonaldDressler:

Thanks!! I hope I can attend.. I am kind of stuck in my state for now. But, I spend most of my research on finding the link between mysticism and Paranormal. I tend to believe there is indeed a solid connection with the two. From reading your posts on negative energy seems to confirm my research on the link.

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@anonymous: Seems like my para is just one team: Debunk Paranormal according to their site links. Also that group My Para is under investigation by several Major Paranormal Organizations across the country for the lie they stated on that other spot before it was erased. Id hate to be in U@Rs shoes right now.

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@RonaldDressler:Well Debunk Paranormal not my Para but they seem to be the same thing.

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@RonaldDressler:

Don’t even waste keystrokes on them it’s a waste of your time …nobody cares what they think anyway plus my Para isn’t even viewable from the outside because they get lampooned so much …

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@RonaldDressler:

In reference to UNR/Debunkparanormal:

Ask him about how defensive and evasive he became when queried about his self proclaimed “years and years” of experience in the paranormal field and how there is not one single solitary shred of documentation or a single group photo of him with any other organized group prior to whatever current pretentious outfit he has assembled…

He is also an active participant in that ridiculous TAPS Family dominated site so that alone completely negates any or all credibility he MAY have had …

God I cant wait til this TAPS plague ends so guys like him will go back to playing fireman or secret agent or something lol..

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@MARK CALE: Oh yeah. Everything is energy according to Physics and Discernment so there is a definitive link to all things through energy.

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@Big Johnson: I know, and him coming over here and completely being caught in his lie showed me the truth and I know it did to everyone who had a chance to see. The client wrote Scifake telling them about the fact it was a lie lol.

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This Sunday, Dec. 6th, at 8 PM Eastern, Ron Tebo will be our guest on the show to discuss this very topic. We’d like to cordially invite you to come by and listen to the show at http://www.para-x.com

Thanks

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